UK Information Needed

[Amazing Deejay]

Sorry for the separate thread, but need help from you guys. Few old schoolers left who remember, but I need some tid bits on some UK DJs, and the history, for an article:

Hope someone can help.

a) What year did Sasha start spinning, where, and did he start with House?
b) Was Oakenfold a Hip Hop DJ before starting at Spectrum?
c) What year did Digweed start spinning, where, and was he a House DJ from the start?
d) Who were the very first UK DJs to play (possibly even the radio instead of at events) the Progressive & Trance sound?

 

[siman91]

Sorry for the separate thread, but need help from you guys. Few old schoolers left who remember, but I need some tid bits on some UK DJs, and the history, for an article:

Hope someone can help.

a) What year did Sasha start spinning, where, and did he start with House?
b) Was Oakenfold a Hip Hop DJ before starting at Spectrum?
c) What year did Digweed start spinning, where, and was he a House DJ from the start?
d) Who were the very first UK DJs to play (possibly even the radio instead of at events) the Progressive & Trance sound?

I am no expert especially on Sasha but I will give you what I know.

a- Ive got a 89 mix and I beleive he started out by going to the Hac and other surrounding clubs around the area. Regarding playing out I seem to recall a story of him being offered a reserve slot in a northern club which got him hooked? As mentioned im not a great Sasha fan.

b- Paul Oakenfold lived in NYC between 79/80 and therefore maybe did spin some hip hop however pre 79 worked in Rumours Covent Garden through contact Trevor Fung playing soul and rare groove. 85 He started playing a more hip hop style night in streathem S London with Run DMC etc. Delerium started 87 where Oakenfold found house propper.

c- John Digweed started out close to home on the south coast under his original name DJ JD circa 1992. I have at least 2 tapes of JD and they are both fairly laid back house and you can see where his style developed from.

d-Progressive and trance are very different in my eyes. Progressive so far as im am concerned started to be called progressive circa 1993 with nights like Renaissance and Babaliscious (spelling)

S

 

[sevenuk]

I am no expert especially on Sasha but I will give you what I know.

a- Ive got a 89 mix and I beleive he started out by going to the Hac and other surrounding clubs around the area. Regarding playing out I seem to recall a story of him being offered a reserve slot in a northern club which got him hooked? As mentioned im not a great Sasha fan.


S

not far off there, the story has it that he was a punter in the Hacienda travelling over from Wrexham and decided to have a go himself.... he began warming up for Mike Pickering around late 89/90 there and the rest is history

developed his own style of harder baselines, use of accapellas and italian piano tunes and soon was playing at shelleys shaboo some small place in stockport which was excellent but i cant recall the name!!

got to say i preferred him when he had residencies but he never failed to give a good night...

 

[sevenuk]

some good books that may assist are

Dave Haslam - adventures on the wheels of steel

Bill Brewster & frank broughton - last night a dj saved my life

good reads if nothing else

 

[BOD]

http://www.oldskoolanthemz.com/forum/music-chat/87411-son-god-mixmag.html


Interview here gives you plenty of Sasha info

 

[nupski]

not much to add here, i think what siman said was fairly accurate, i deffo agree with him about the difference between progressive and trance, which are very different genres for me.

one thing i would say is that i think sasha started to play prog tunes in his sets in the second half of 92, not sure but i believe that renaissance first started up around that time. diggers was an early ressie at renaissance so i would say late 92, both for the rise in popularity of progressive house and also when digweed first started making a name for himself. i certainly have a few 92 tunes that i regard as prog, although as siman said i don't think it existed as a genre at that point

hope that helps m8

 

[Amazing Deejay]

Thanks to all of you. If you don't mind, can I use your info as a source in this article I'm writing. I'm not extensively going to who the DJs are, because it's not very important...but more the genre from that time.

 

[Amazing Deejay]

I forgot to mention, I did read that section from Last Night a DJ Saved....it was pretty good.

Regarding Trance & Progressive. The article I've written on the history of Trance may interest you. When it's done i'll send it to you guys.

Both terms Trance & Progressive I find aren't genres of music. They are 'styles' or 'sub-genres' of House. I know some of the Trance you are thinking in your head is the Cheese Trance of the early 2000's like some that Tiesto used to play, or the Cheese Trance that Oakenfold used to play in the 94 period. A lot of that stuff, we called Euro here in North America. The underground stuff was generally called Progressive House. This label (Progressive) lasted over here to around the time when Tiesto first started playing over here. I'm talking about what was played in the big clubs, like 10,000 capacity ones. Then, the word changed to Trance, to describe the House music being played in the main room at these big clubs. Tiesto continued to play House also, not just Euro Cheese Trance, but he was labeled a Trance DJ. Then Armin arrived and started blasting the word Trance out of a bazooka, but the House nation was confused because they thought Trance was already over.

The word House has become massive again in North America. The events are swelling over here. Sometimes 90,000 in one night. There has been a backlash against Trance, the next generation desires the House/Hip House sound again. It's incredible to see the next generation of punters come in and take over the scene. They are spreading like rats. Kind of like how my generation killed the Underground Warehouse party scene. The raving fools that we were, we started infiltrating venues like rats and taking over.

Point is, in my opinion, they forgot to add the word House at the end of Trance, in the beginning, then none of this confusion would have happened. True some of the Trance recordings in the early 1990's appeared on Techno labels, but to me they were way too close in composition to House rather than Detroit/German techno. Add to the fact in our early scene, Trance was always played in the House room.

 

[siman91]

Both terms Trance & Progressive I find aren't genres of music. They are 'styles' or 'sub-genres' of House.

Nearly all post 84 dance music is sub genres of House including Jungle, Techno etc. The odd exceptions are Electro (true electro that is), Italian Disco and Electronic Pop.

Just my strong opinion!

S

 

[Monty]

Hardcore/Jungle/Drum n Bass = Metal & Ragga etc it is not Disco Dance House music.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AttsxNWIQ_g]INTENSE THE DROWZEE E P PARADIGI UNDERGROUND LEVEL RECORDINGS ULR 0012 1992 HARDCORE - YouTube[/ame]

Electro/Techno was formed in the Seventies

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBGNlTPgQII]Kraftwerk - Trans europe express - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWmAZ69RDGA"]Total Recall Open Your Mind Scene - YouTube[/ame]

 

[siman91]

Wrong Monty, your so wrong. My reply mentions that true electro pre dates house as would ragga and electronic pop music and Italian Disco.

House I feel came from the blend of Electro and Italian Disco by the WBMX guys. Techno developed from house via The Music Box and Ron Hardy, Derek May, Juan Atkins etc. Garage developed via Frankie Knuckles etc and the New York influence. The mix of US and European sounds in 86 developed into a more distinct house sound which split in the late 80's to Euro Techno and New Beat, US House and Garage, UK Acid House and Pop.

Sounds like Hardcore developed in 89/90 through a mix of Techno and Acid House with a British want for faster and harder music. Listen to tracks like Landlord I Like It (blow out dub), Robin Wants Revenge and you can see where the roots of the hardcore sound came from. Also new dj's emerged from being party goers to fully fledged dj's such as Fabio and Grooverider. Yes hardcore picked up influences including ragga but also piano etc etc. Jungle developed from breakbeak and darkcore which as mentioned previously came from the mainly London taste for harder and faster.

House does NOT = Disco
Hardcore does NOT = Ragga/Metal

The whole scene developed from Chicago House in 1984 and has been added to by every one of us on this board with some trying production, some trying dj'ing and others simply attending parties which if they were not popular because of the dj's and style of music they played would die a death a bit like Hip House.

S

 

[Monty]

I know you love House music & i hope you continue to love House music!...Peace!...

 

[granthamdisco]

Wrong Monty, your so wrong. My reply mentions that true electro pre dates house as would ragga and electronic pop music and Italian Disco.

House I feel came from the blend of Electro and Italian Disco by the WBMX guys. Techno developed from house via The Music Box and Ron Hardy, Derek May, Juan Atkins etc. Garage developed via Frankie Knuckles etc and the New York influence. The mix of US and European sounds in 86 developed into a more distinct house sound which split in the late 80's to Euro Techno and New Beat, US House and Garage, UK Acid House and Pop.

Sounds like Hardcore developed in 89/90 through a mix of Techno and Acid House with a British want for faster and harder music. Listen to tracks like Landlord I Like It (blow out dub), Robin Wants Revenge and you can see where the roots of the hardcore sound came from. Also new dj's emerged from being party goers to fully fledged dj's such as Fabio and Grooverider. Yes hardcore picked up influences including ragga but also piano etc etc. Jungle developed from breakbeak and darkcore which as mentioned previously came from the mainly London taste for harder and faster.

House does NOT = Disco
Hardcore does NOT = Ragga/Metal

The whole scene developed from Chicago House in 1984 and has been added to by every one of us on this board with some trying production, some trying dj'ing and others simply attending parties which if they were not popular because of the dj's and style of music they played would die a death a bit like Hip House.

S

House is influenced by electro & Italo but the main influence is Disco

Frankie was playing Disco with a drum machine underneat that the warehouse & Ron was playing pumped up disco edits at the Music Box


Garage is more New Jersey / Tony Humphries take on soulful house which was still infulenced by Levan at the Paradise Garage

 

[granthamdisco]

Sorry for the separate thread, but need help from you guys. Few old schoolers left who remember, but I need some tid bits on some UK DJs, and the history, for an article:

Hope someone can help.

a) What year did Sasha start spinning, where, and did he start with House?
b) Was Oakenfold a Hip Hop DJ before starting at Spectrum?
c) What year did Digweed start spinning, where, and was he a House DJ from the start?
d) Who were the very first UK DJs to play (possibly even the radio instead of at events) the Progressive & Trance sound?

Oakenfold worked or was involved with Def Jam in the UK

Lots in here

Trevor Fung | DJhistory.com

 

[Amazing Deejay]

Simon is correct, in it all steming from House. But my friend claims that D&B came more from Hip Hop, and I wonder what you guys think from this. He claims Goldie came from the breakdance B-Boy scene from NY before Roast and all the underground players of Jungle became big. Even the Roast guys said in some interview that there was some divergence in the scene at some point, where the early Hardcore scene was where House & Breakbeat were the same scene, then the House scene branched off, and Roast was left doing D&B only.

The reason the next generation isn't really aware of this, is because they probably weren't around from the Jack Trax days.

England though as a whole was instrumental in broadcasting House on a large scale, and I think I should reference this. Probably more so than mainland Europe - although can someone confirm this. Germany claims to have had a scene but my guess is the House scene in Germany was small in comparison to England - please confirm. Heck wasn't Jack Trax completely UK? There are a variety of tracks I had that were released in England, and never in the US...at least I think.

In the late 80's, we weren't experiencing large raves as much as the UK. It is those masses of attendees at those events in England that made House so big, in my opinion.

I also agree with the House being separate from Disco. I should probably mention this.

 

[Amazing Deejay]

House is influenced by electro & Italo but the main influence is Disco

Frankie was playing Disco with a drum machine underneat that the warehouse & Ron was playing pumped up disco edits at the Music Box


Garage is more New Jersey / Tony Humphries take on soulful house which was still infulenced by Levan at the Paradise Garage

I think what he's refering to is, House although influenced from Disco, is not disco. It's Electronic, possibly 100% electronic..., and it's own entity. What Frankie & Hardy were doing with the reel-to-reels, with the disco beats was extremely primitive. The string of releases in 1986-1987 onwards to me really defines what House is. I know that there were earlier releases on Mitchbal, Jessay, and even Chip E's label, but they were nothing compared to what was to come out on Trax or DJ International. The reference to Italo Disco is due to the more electronic sound that those records had, as opposed to Salsoul sound. The Salsoul sound was old and phasing out by this time.

By the way Siman, you should go check out this early Gherkin release by Larry Heard...Gherkin Jerks I think on a green label. I swear that Detroit Techno could have used Larry Heards records as a template. But what I find strange is that Detroit Techno people RARELY reference House music as being their template. Go to the Techno page on Wikipedia. There was a guy who said that "Juan Atkins thinks that House developed AS A RESULT OF some drum machine that was given to the chicago guys from a detroit guy"....I tried changing the quote

For everyones info Gherkin was a pure House label. I had the funny Newsy Neighbours release, and the other Mondee Oliver...plus stay close with the yellow label. They were a House label but released House that people call Techno today?

Maybe Techno doesn't event exist!!!!!!!

OK, maybe I should re-word this and say, that experimental techno has little to do with House, but some of the dance stuff that is labelled Techno is nothing more than House music.

 

[Monty]

Hardcore/Jungle/Drum & Bass <----- In that order!...

The word Hardcore comes from Punk it was brand new when it came out producers doing new things nothing like it before it.

Something to read:

A short history of Drum and Bass

If you are a Dj/Producer/Sound Engineer not just a Dj you dig deeper inside music from the recording studio side not media look to people who actually make the music,also if you want know more about Electro/Techno look more into Kraftwerk from the professional side (recording studio) & all the people who wanted to sound & be like them from bands to body popping breakdancers.

 

[siman91]

Wow theres alot being said in the last posts and I dont feel able to comment on post 93/94 music as I sort of lost interest and started to look backwards not forwards.

1, First and most important broadcaster for house music was WBMX and the Hot Mix 5. They introduced the very first mixes originally disco/electro and italian disco mixed/blended/scratch mixed. These guys developed the use of drum machines and sequencers and eventually the house sound. Frankie played and produced a number or artists and claims the first house sound with Jamie Principle in 1984. Jesse Saunders and Z Factor claim first place with Fantasy and the Dance Party Album and Duane Thamm Jr and Mike Macharello should have a say with Single Girl and Jump Trax all mid/late 1984.

2, Italian Disco was a massive ifluence but so were others....

Electro, Night Moves - Transdance (Vinyl) at Discogs
Italian Disco, Capricorn (3) - I Need Love (Vinyl) at Discogs
Upbeat Electro, Coachouse Rhythm Section, The* - Nobody's Got Time / Time Warp (Vinyl) at Discogs
US Disco, Powerline - Journey (Vinyl) at Discogs
etc etc etc including Kraftwerk, Gino Socio etc.

3, Trax Records were simply there at the right time, they simply pressed the early records and did very little to promotion....they did not have the money!!

4, UK and Europe had a massive influence as mentioned in the early years through some of the purest electronic music, Electro. The US DJ's simply introduced the Hip Hop and turntabilism using mainly Euro and UK music but also some underground yesteryear disco. WBMX, WGCI etc put this onto the airways and spread the work outside of the clubs.

5, Gherkin Jerks, have 1990 but want Stomp. Have earlier Larry Heard stuff too including Disco D etc.

6, Techno very much exists although people do tend to classify New Beat etc as Techno. True Techno is a pure 4/4 beat without a break beat and used to be for the real purist....I went to a few pure techno nights and although having great music some of the people were not very welcoming as I prefered break beat.

In conclusion everybody have their own taste in music. The joy of house (all types) is that it was created on technology which was available to everybody (most of us had Atari ST or Amiga im sure). With very little production knowledge tracks were being produced full of fresh ideas and influences from sample heavy tracks to pure techno with no breaks/samples etc. Producers such as Larry Heard were early pioneers. DJ's like Farley were different to Knuckles being different to Ron Hardy.........

I think the pity is that society likes to pigeon hole everything including music. I use some sub genres but still see the whole scene as originating from HOUSE of 1984. I buy music which I love not because it fits a particular pigeon hole.....just look at my Discogs account!!

S

 

[Monty]

I did delete this but i might as well post it!
----------------------------------------

I got into Electro/Hip Hop/Scratching around 1982-1983 loving drum machines & Hip Hop artist naming themselfs after drum machines
i never heard of House at this time also Kraftwerk built there own drum machines,Scratching was invented by Grand Wizard Theodore nothing to do with House.FFFFFresh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

About Hardcore:

Hardcore is actually anti-house music same as Disco vs Rock we was bored off soft feminine electronic music (House),these are not pigeon holes but completely different styles of music with different mind sets.

If you want to say Electro/Hip Hop/Hardcore/Jungle/Drum & Bass etc is all House music your entitled to but there is no way
you can embrace the culture behind these styles of music (which i find souless) & dig deeper into why these styles of music happened where they come from because if you say
they are all House then they all must come from the same story.

So this means:

Everything is all HOUSE:

Electro comes from Chicago
Italio Disco comes from Chicago
Hip Hop comes from Chicago
Hardcore comes from Chicago
Jungle comes from Chicago
Drum & Bass comes from Chicago

The best thing that happened in the eighties was Electro/Hip Hop
The best thing that happened in the nineties was Hardcore/Jungle

 

[Art Awreet]

I forgot to mention, I did read that section from Last Night a DJ Saved....it was pretty good.

Regarding Trance & Progressive. The article I've written on the history of Trance may interest you. When it's done i'll send it to you guys.

Both terms Trance & Progressive I find aren't genres of music. They are 'styles' or 'sub-genres' of House. I know some of the Trance you are thinking in your head is the Cheese Trance of the early 2000's like some that Tiesto used to play, or the Cheese Trance that Oakenfold used to play in the 94 period. A lot of that stuff, we called Euro here in North America. The underground stuff was generally called Progressive House. This label (Progressive) lasted over here to around the time when Tiesto first started playing over here. I'm talking about what was played in the big clubs, like 10,000 capacity ones. Then, the word changed to Trance, to describe the House music being played in the main room at these big clubs. Tiesto continued to play House also, not just Euro Cheese Trance, but he was labeled a Trance DJ. Then Armin arrived and started blasting the word Trance out of a bazooka, but the House nation was confused because they thought Trance was already over.

The word House has become massive again in North America. The events are swelling over here. Sometimes 90,000 in one night. There has been a backlash against Trance, the next generation desires the House/Hip House sound again. It's incredible to see the next generation of punters come in and take over the scene. They are spreading like rats. Kind of like how my generation killed the Underground Warehouse party scene. The raving fools that we were, we started infiltrating venues like rats and taking over.

Point is, in my opinion, they forgot to add the word House at the end of Trance, in the beginning, then none of this confusion would have happened. True some of the Trance recordings in the early 1990's appeared on Techno labels, but to me they were way too close in composition to House rather than Detroit/German techno. Add to the fact in our early scene, Trance was always played in the House room.

Interesting to hear that the hip-house sound is coming back at the expense of trance. Always liked the hip-house sound and it was a shame it kind of died off in the very early 90's. Never liked the post 1992 trance or techno sounds - far too boring and serious for me. Same could be said about post 1992 hardcore/Jungle which got too fast