Cultural Debate For you
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OldskoolDazed (al)
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- Jul 15, 2001
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he he - i ave perfect in tact copy of this back at me mams plus most of the others from 92
this was well debated in the day n yeah i agree -it was prodigys - charly that kind commercialised rave but it wasnt totally it - it was promotors greed n labels wanting to make quick money - then other groups jumping on the bandwagon, that killed the scene and some dj called dj dougal n some jumped up schoolkid called hixxy - who didnt ave a clue about the scene so started makin there own cheesy music -stuff that could be made in 10 mins - alah - happy hardcore - thats what killed the scene - i guess same could be said about the smd'd these was cheese but was a well respected dj followin the way the rest of the scene went.
alan
this was well debated in the day n yeah i agree -it was prodigys - charly that kind commercialised rave but it wasnt totally it - it was promotors greed n labels wanting to make quick money - then other groups jumping on the bandwagon, that killed the scene and some dj called dj dougal n some jumped up schoolkid called hixxy - who didnt ave a clue about the scene so started makin there own cheesy music -stuff that could be made in 10 mins - alah - happy hardcore - thats what killed the scene - i guess same could be said about the smd'd these was cheese but was a well respected dj followin the way the rest of the scene went.
alan
"Miow e miow moew, moew moiw meioew. Charlie sez always tell your mummy before you go off somewhere". heheh.
I dont know about killing the scene on its own either. Some jumped up upstart from a local or national rag probably stirred things up 'cos it sampled the Public Service TV Broadcast thingy. I remember the big whoohar scare about "sampling and drug fuelled dance beats" killing music in general and folk were going bannanas on locking down copyrights on anything and everything!.
I just thought it was a good fun record, and I must admit I own a copy with pride. I think 2Unlimited and its ilk had more to play in the matter with such classic lines as "Techno,Techno,Tecnho" derr derr di di der der di di di (Make some money)".
The tradgic thing is that virtually everything gets commercialised to death. When Epichouse and ProgHouse came out late 94/95 with the likes of Sunday Club - Palladian Dawn (All time best monster of a epic tuneee) I thought 'Oh! at last , something that cant get over done to death because it was quite monotone and didnt bounce around the octaves as much as stuff before. Boy was I wrong!.
Sometimes if I think I'll hear that f**king wobbly trance lead sound noise doing another pre generated cheesy arpeggio riff, Im going to friggin cry. Its a shame really and spoilt it in a way in my opinion. Thats what this so called 'old skool revival' may be all about 'cos folks are sick of the same old tired off beat bass arpeggio track stuff. Its not all bad, but you can hardly tell the difference between two different releases these days.
God Im sounding like an old fogey arent I?!!!!.
Better leave now, before I drag you all into musical deppression..............
On a good note, since Charly, thankfully the dance music scene hasnt died the total death many thought it would. And its got to the stage where even government ads and stuff are using dance orientated music in the background!. Friggin hypocrites!. I think we will still be going strong for ages yet. Long live Zero's and Ones!.
see ya,
Sirius.
Oh yeah, I could just be talkin out my arse though..............
PPS, that wasnt scanned by "Benny Blanco from the Bronx". That little oik shot Robert DeNiro in that movie didnt he? or was that Bronco?.
I dont know about killing the scene on its own either. Some jumped up upstart from a local or national rag probably stirred things up 'cos it sampled the Public Service TV Broadcast thingy. I remember the big whoohar scare about "sampling and drug fuelled dance beats" killing music in general and folk were going bannanas on locking down copyrights on anything and everything!.
I just thought it was a good fun record, and I must admit I own a copy with pride. I think 2Unlimited and its ilk had more to play in the matter with such classic lines as "Techno,Techno,Tecnho" derr derr di di der der di di di (Make some money)".
The tradgic thing is that virtually everything gets commercialised to death. When Epichouse and ProgHouse came out late 94/95 with the likes of Sunday Club - Palladian Dawn (All time best monster of a epic tuneee) I thought 'Oh! at last , something that cant get over done to death because it was quite monotone and didnt bounce around the octaves as much as stuff before. Boy was I wrong!.
Sometimes if I think I'll hear that f**king wobbly trance lead sound noise doing another pre generated cheesy arpeggio riff, Im going to friggin cry. Its a shame really and spoilt it in a way in my opinion. Thats what this so called 'old skool revival' may be all about 'cos folks are sick of the same old tired off beat bass arpeggio track stuff. Its not all bad, but you can hardly tell the difference between two different releases these days.
God Im sounding like an old fogey arent I?!!!!
.Better leave now, before I drag you all into musical deppression
..............On a good note, since Charly, thankfully the dance music scene hasnt died the total death many thought it would. And its got to the stage where even government ads and stuff are using dance orientated music in the background!. Friggin hypocrites!. I think we will still be going strong for ages yet. Long live Zero's and Ones!.
see ya,
Sirius.
Oh yeah, I could just be talkin out my arse though
..............PPS, that wasnt scanned by "Benny Blanco from the Bronx". That little oik shot Robert DeNiro in that movie didnt he? or was that Bronco?.
I dont think Charly killed rave it just made the scene more well known plus The Prodge did a lot of stuff b4 charly innit.....erm more later when i can think
If Charly hadn't done then another tune just around the corner would have, so although Prodigy's Charly will always wear the badge I don't think it should take all the blame. Thinking way back, French Kiss charted, as did LFO, Tricky Disco, Some justice scraped into the top 40 (I think!) and there's plenty others if you think about it. Charly was just a really good 12" which had other good tunes on it too and was one from the true rave scene written by an Essex raver and performed by him and a few of his mates. His intentions were never to become a huge dance act - there was no such thing back then!
More likely what killed it was the copying of his format which many did.
More likely what killed it was the copying of his format which many did.
sirius said:
Oh yeah, I could just be talkin out my arse though
PPS, that wasnt scanned by "Benny Blanco from the Bronx". That little oik shot Robert DeNiro in that movie didnt he? or was that Bronco?.
yeah man it was benny blanco....from de bronx and it was al pacino he smoked (carlito brigante mutha fucka to the max!)
coy
Im with sirius 100%
Prodigy - Charlie though is still a top tune though, because without that bit o plastic heaven, you would not have had Your Love off the B side. In my eyes you may be abble to tag charlie, but the dick heads that bought it for chart sucsses reasons, did not really understand it for what it was
And lets face it they may have a well hated record on the A side
But..... to then have one of the most well loved piano tunes ( that for me mark a memorie of what 92 was about ) on the B side
How can you knock them
If anything, The Prodigy where the one to forsee the death of rave first before anyone else, not cause the end of it
I remember there interveiw in 1994s Mixmag, when Liam quoted that they stoped beeing a dance act in 93, and wanted to become a live band because after 1992, they said the rave culture ( as an Underground movement ) was dead.
I remember laughing at the time, but I was soon to have egg on my face
They where bang on , and they saw it first
Respect to Prodigy, and Liam
M Jaxx
Prodigy - Charlie though is still a top tune though, because without that bit o plastic heaven, you would not have had Your Love off the B side. In my eyes you may be abble to tag charlie, but the dick heads that bought it for chart sucsses reasons, did not really understand it for what it was
And lets face it they may have a well hated record on the A side
But..... to then have one of the most well loved piano tunes ( that for me mark a memorie of what 92 was about ) on the B side
How can you knock them
If anything, The Prodigy where the one to forsee the death of rave first before anyone else, not cause the end of it
I remember there interveiw in 1994s Mixmag, when Liam quoted that they stoped beeing a dance act in 93, and wanted to become a live band because after 1992, they said the rave culture ( as an Underground movement ) was dead.
I remember laughing at the time, but I was soon to have egg on my face
They where bang on , and they saw it first
Respect to Prodigy, and Liam
M Jaxx
I think some of us are not really reading the true meaning of the sentence 'Did Charly kill rave'... personally I think it means 'Did cocaine kill rave' and yes it did... some of us that were in to the scene then remembers the transformation from 91 to 92 when white doves made everyone feel happy then they dissapeared and the new pills were shite so everyone started trying cocaine..
This as we know killed the atmosphere and friendlyness in clubs, everyone had an attitude and people who tried to be friendly to others usually ended up getting hit or stared at..
As for the record Charlie.. i use to rock my tits off to this.. bit commercial now yes, but just flip the plastic over and experience 1 of the best piano anthems of all time....
This as we know killed the atmosphere and friendlyness in clubs, everyone had an attitude and people who tried to be friendly to others usually ended up getting hit or stared at..
As for the record Charlie.. i use to rock my tits off to this.. bit commercial now yes, but just flip the plastic over and experience 1 of the best piano anthems of all time....
I agree with you, whilst coke if good in a different enviroment it wasnt suited to rave culture. Persoanlly when I heard a song by "Dream Frequecncy - Take me to the Top" I thought I was just listeneing to a parody of everything I had ever like in the last 3 years and it made you hate it, I mean you could here fuck all that was going on in the record, You might as well have been listening to heavy metal it was so over exagerated and cliched....ho yes, but the kids loved it.....the scene died shortly afterwards needless to say.....
You can never say that a scene died. Nothing in music died & the fact that people do/.did listen to it means it was worthwhile producing.
People make records in demand of the market & it's always the way it will be. Lots of people go on about "it was better when it was underground" - it's never gonna stay that way forever. The more popular something becomes. it stops being underground.
Look at stuff like Steps, S-club7 etc. We may not like them but they produce records for the demand & it works for them.
There are so many different genres of music about these days, people try to label them differently to make them more popular - I mean, whoever thought up the phrase HARDBAG !! WFT??!! It was merely a marketing ploy to make the kids out raving think they were getting into something new whilst it was still 'underground' and then making it big & cashing in. I've realised this more literally over this last weekend - I went ot a hard house club for the first time & IMO it was basically hard techno (really bouncy, fast repetative beats) but with vocal smples from loads of OS tunes.
I heard samples from Little Bird, Anybody out there, Josh Wink, a dremfrequesny one that I can't remember the name of ....but the point I'm trying to make is that to me it was old tunes made more for the new generation. For me personally I loved it cos it meant I still got to hear snippets of my fave kind of tunes but that I could bounce my little socks off fast as you like.
No one kills types of music, it's like fashion, it changes all the time & moves on & develops towards whatever the market demands at the time.
Just my rambling thoughts guys.
People make records in demand of the market & it's always the way it will be. Lots of people go on about "it was better when it was underground" - it's never gonna stay that way forever. The more popular something becomes. it stops being underground.
Look at stuff like Steps, S-club7 etc. We may not like them but they produce records for the demand & it works for them.
There are so many different genres of music about these days, people try to label them differently to make them more popular - I mean, whoever thought up the phrase HARDBAG !! WFT??!! It was merely a marketing ploy to make the kids out raving think they were getting into something new whilst it was still 'underground' and then making it big & cashing in. I've realised this more literally over this last weekend - I went ot a hard house club for the first time & IMO it was basically hard techno (really bouncy, fast repetative beats) but with vocal smples from loads of OS tunes.
I heard samples from Little Bird, Anybody out there, Josh Wink, a dremfrequesny one that I can't remember the name of ....but the point I'm trying to make is that to me it was old tunes made more for the new generation. For me personally I loved it cos it meant I still got to hear snippets of my fave kind of tunes but that I could bounce my little socks off fast as you like.
No one kills types of music, it's like fashion, it changes all the time & moves on & develops towards whatever the market demands at the time.
Just my rambling thoughts guys.
and also.....
like fasion it will all come back in....
its like on a big wheel, (like weel of fortune)
some will die out but they will always come back in..
on another not i listen to all types (apart from realy realy old stuff and house...and d&b.... and garage) ok lets say almost anythin?
like fasion it will all come back in....
its like on a big wheel, (like weel of fortune)
some will die out but they will always come back in..
on another not i listen to all types
(apart from realy realy old stuff and house...and d&b.... and garage) ok lets say almost anythin?U cant blame "Charly" coz lets face it, it was a belter and yes "Your Love" was even better (I heard that tune way before charly hit the charts and it was slower than its post-released version).
If yer gonna blame charly then u would have to blame 808 State for Pacific State (another classic) and the likes of Guru Josh for "Infinity" which although were aimed at a comercial market, were still fekkin gr8 tunes. There was loadsa comercial planned tunes released about that same time and even before that, that cant take the blame either...Everything starts with and E, Fools Gold, Stakke's Humanoid and so on......
My personal theory here is that while us oldskoolers were forcing our schoolmates/workmates and family members to swallow Acid House music and early techno we actually changed peoples opinion slowly and made them accept that kinda music which inevitably lead to a larger market. Even my bro and sis listen to "dance" music nowadays and that down to the fact I forced them into hearing it blasting year after year untill their complaints went to "ok its not that bad" to "yeah that pretty good" and finally to "YEAH gimme more".
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Cocaine isnt to blame either. The fact you take coke dont make you have a bad attitude at a rave. Only the fact youre a "pregnant fish" makes you aggresive. Ching also helps you stay up there after having a mad fella or two.
If yer gonna blame charly then u would have to blame 808 State for Pacific State (another classic) and the likes of Guru Josh for "Infinity" which although were aimed at a comercial market, were still fekkin gr8 tunes. There was loadsa comercial planned tunes released about that same time and even before that, that cant take the blame either...Everything starts with and E, Fools Gold, Stakke's Humanoid and so on......
My personal theory here is that while us oldskoolers were forcing our schoolmates/workmates and family members to swallow Acid House music and early techno we actually changed peoples opinion slowly and made them accept that kinda music which inevitably lead to a larger market. Even my bro and sis listen to "dance" music nowadays and that down to the fact I forced them into hearing it blasting year after year untill their complaints went to "ok its not that bad" to "yeah that pretty good" and finally to "YEAH gimme more".
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Cocaine isnt to blame either. The fact you take coke dont make you have a bad attitude at a rave. Only the fact youre a "pregnant fish" makes you aggresive. Ching also helps you stay up there after having a mad fella or two.
BTW
D-Mob's - Acieeeeed was another chart topper 5 years before Charly was released but it didnt ruin Acid House did it ??
D-Mob's - Acieeeeed was another chart topper 5 years before Charly was released but it didnt ruin Acid House did it ??
I did think (and still do) the d mob track acieeeeeeeed was a parody of acid music at the time, similar in a way to the charley song.
