Time for a upgrade on the wheels of steel..what would you get ?

[Ruffenuff]

So after a 25 year break..I got a cheap pair of Stantons t80s which I've had about 2 years now...they did the job and I'm up to speed now...but not with the scratching as my hands ain't quick no more after years on the tools.
So upgrade time
Now here's the thing...i dont want technics ....I had a pair from 88 to 95...
So my contenders are
Pioneer plx 1000
Denon vl12
Reloop rp7000

Has anyone had a go on any of these?...how do they compare to the grand master??

I suppose next question is....do you know anyone selling a good pair at a fair price

 

[Spektral]

So after a 25 year break..I got a cheap pair of Stantons t80s which I've had about 2 years now...they did the job and I'm up to speed now...but not with the scratching as my hands ain't quick no more after years on the tools.
So upgrade time
Now here's the thing...i dont want technics ....I had a pair from 88 to 95...
So my contenders are
Pioneer plx 1000
Denon vl12
Reloop rp7000

Has anyone had a go on any of these?...how do they compare to the grand master??

I suppose next question is....do you know anyone selling a good pair at a fair price

I'm a bit out of touch with turntables, but one thing I believe you need to bear in mind is that many of the new turntables and brands are pretty much the exact same thing under the hood and are even a mish-mash of the same parts (tone arm, motor, cables, pitch control) as they are made in the same Hanpin factory. I believe Reloop, Audio Technica, Pioneer, Denon and more are made by Hanpin - so, in my view there will be very little in substance between most of these and it will mostly be about the look and style.

One other thing that I learnt when buying my "refurbished" Technics, is that the digital pitch controls are generally pretty crappy for doing long mixes as they just aren't accurate enough to keep turntables in time. They're good for turntablism and shorter mixes, but if you're a budding Sasha or Digweed, you might want to look into that aspect. Its not to say you can't mix well on them, it is just that it can be more difficult and involve more faffing around and correcting.

The Youtube channel "Just Technics" goes over some of these and why he generally recommends the older pre-M5 technics - but thanks to pressure from him and from others, Technics have apparently sorted the issue out by refining the latest decks with a better digital pitch control. However, I believe they are silly amount of money compared to what they were back-in-the-day.

I got kind of stung with my "refurbished" turntables.....they were claimed to be "refurbished, nearly new" decks and I was looking for good condition ones so I was really choosy and wanted as close to mint as possible, so I paid the extra for what seemed like good looking and well cared for decks.

Now, don't get me wrong, they're fine, they're okay......but they are what are deemed "Frankendecks", which have been put together with different pieces of different technics decks and they've been-re-sprayed and had cheap printed on logos over the spray. They looked right - but as I found out, you clean it with some Mr Sheen and it starts to smudge. I thought they were originals, but they weren't. Then bit by bit, you realise more things are not quite correct.... but so far they work, they "look" okay, so hey-ho.

 

[Ruffenuff]

Wow...never thought ....people will do anything theses days.
From reading the OG mk2 technics and the mk7 are the ones to get...but both silly dollars.

Are all the new decks digital pitch....I thought the higher end ones went back to analog

 

[Ruffenuff]

Finally ordered a set of........... re loop mk7000 mk2, price , power, adjustable torque and brake just made sense all round

 

[Ruffenuff]

So...ive only gone and done it..I decided on the denon vl12s ..a few up for sale used...because although these were new to the market in 2016 by 2020 they discontinued them, so by that you think cheap right?...wrong ...all the people selling pretty much want what they paid for...one seller on ebay wanted even more...mug!!...so these are out
So a bit more reading, decided against pioneer plx because the pitch control is hardwired, so changing that if it needs it is going to be tricky.
Which leaves me with
Technics 1210mk2
Technics 1210mk7
Reloop 7000mk2

Now I've had the mk2 before....but these days you need the x2 on the pitch...or should I say I want it...plus at 1.5kg/cm torque is not that powerful anymore..coz my cheap stantons are 1.6
So its mk7 v reloops...turns out there ain't much difference between the 2 other than the price( both being super OEM ) , for 1 mk7 I can get 2x reloops...plus the reloops have adjustable torque and brake....so
2x Reloop 7000mk2 is the winner.....and they should be delivered today

 

[chinatownswhite]

I would go 1210s all day long but that my preff......
Im not sure 100% about this, but I was told you can adjust the1210s pitch control from the inside, I'm trying to think who told me they had done theirs....

 

[Ruffenuff]

I would go 1210s all day long but that my preff......
Im not sure 100% about this, but I was told you can adjust the1210s pitch control from the inside, I'm trying to think who told me they had done theirs....

Well see that's the thing...if your old skool like me you instantly think 1210s mk2 are the best....and your probably right, we know they are quality, handle stick....oh the amount of house party's I did on my estate etc....and they work....but the price is high....you might even need to change the parts as the electrics would be like 35 years old...nothing lasts forever....but things were built better in the old days.

So going from that the 1210s mk7 would be next best, ,( there are controls on the inside that you do from the 2 holes on the platter, one is change the strobe from red to blue and the other is to raise the torque to 2.8 I think).
BUT the technics of today ain't nothing the old skool technics....for a start they ain't made in Japan no more...and it's parts are from the same place as all the other super OEM turntables......so you'll just be paying all the extra money for a name.

I got my reloops yesterday...had a play.....there is nothing..Nothing about it to me that made me think...I wish I brought a technics.
I would go as far to say if they had the reloops back in the day I would have saved my YTS money up and brought reloops instead.
I'm well chuffed with them , the build quality is real good and the torque is 2nd to none....how they last in 30 years time.....ask me in 2054

 

[Spektral]

I don't know a thing about the Reloops, but from the pics and the general spec about them on the website they're an attractive set of turntables that actually look right and sensible, professional and not too gimmicky or plasticeyl, like some others have got over the last decade or two.

My only concern would have been the digital pitch control due to all the negatives I have heard about them (with all brands/builds of turntables, even those not from the same Hanpin factory) - but for all I know, things may have again moved on and, besides, Ive never actually had hands on experience of them myself. I think the new Technics sorted it out, so if they can do it and if most of the similar brands are using the same electronics, it may be filtering through into the rest.

It no doubt also depends on how good a DJ somebody is and what kind of music and mixing they like to do anyway.

I previously had a set of Stanton STR8 100's with the lovely brushed aluminium casing (well, before I ruined them with cleaning them down with the green side of a wet sponge and it spoiling the anodised finish) - and the wow and flutter of the platters was not that great and I swear it was sending my mixes out of sync.....and I wanted to make sure I had no excuses for being a bit shit, so I stumped up for the refurbed Technics with the analogue pitch control.

This is because I have a vast collection of progressive house and quietly had a dream some 20 years or so of being Sasha and Digweed on the decks lol.....and with those kinds of mixes, on vinyl, you do have to get very good and you do need to rely on the solidity of the pitches because the mix between two records could be lasting for 2 to 3 minutes as you edge it in and edge the other out.

If you're playing breaks, old-skool, Italo-house, doing a bit of turntablism and such, that'd be a different ballgame. Somebody who is a decent DJ with a good ear will be able to ride the decks and correct for very slight errors anyway.

I don't have a good ear any more and I don't DJ enough as I should, so I wrestle a bit with trying to figure out which one is drifting when it is fine drift, so I like to try and keep fannying about and corrections to a minimum in case I go the wrong way and make it worse.

I'd be interested in what the opinion is on the ReLoops in terms of keeping the decks in sync compared to the old Technics/analogue method.

I also notice that these ReLoops are more heavy duty in both weight and in construction, perhaps a bit like the original Technics in terms of the rubberised linings. This sounds great and wise choice to make.

I don't tend to go out "clubbing" much these days, but the last time I did, out in a venue in Blackburn last year, some of the DJ's were on turntables and they were the more plasticy ones with a lighter body - and even though they were propped up on some slabs and sat on some thick foam, they were still skipping due to the vibrations of the floor.

 

[Ruffenuff]

I've never understood the difference between the anologe and digital pitch...except the digital ones have the lock button that puts it back to 0 and it doesn't click in the middle....maybe they got better now...tbh the pitch on my stanton t80s were great.
Being old skool my mixes ain't drawn out...never understood to the long drawn out mixes...last time I was at a club and the dj kept bring the same record back even after 3 different tunes were played...it got real boring ...we all started booing.....this was back in 93/4....maybe the younger ones like it...I sure don't.
Mix tip if you want it....purposely make one record that wee bit slower...so say after 5 seconds you know which to speed up or slow...trying to get it spot bollox perfect brings its problems...one false move and you got galloping drums ...so it's better to know imo.

I don't mix for anyone..im just a bedroom mixer these days, too old to be out clubbing..tbh I would rather stay at home lol...its cheaper and I like my mornings...god I sound old...I am!!.

I did find a problem on the reloops I don't like....I don't like the anodised tone arm...I miss the chrome one from technics

 

[Spektral]

I've never understood the difference between the anologe and digital pitch...except the digital ones have the lock button that puts it back to 0 and it doesn't click in the middle....maybe they got better now...tbh the pitch on my stanton t80s were great.
Being old skool my mixes ain't drawn out...never understood to the long drawn out mixes...last time I was at a club and the dj kept bring the same record back even after 3 different tunes were played...it got real boring ...we all started booing.....this was back in 93/4....maybe the younger ones like it...I sure don't.
Mix tip if you want it....purposely make one record that wee bit slower...so say after 5 seconds you know which to speed up or slow...trying to get it spot bollox perfect brings its problems...one false move and you got galloping drums ...so it's better to know imo.

I don't mix for anyone..im just a bedroom mixer these days, too old to be out clubbing..tbh I would rather stay at home lol...its cheaper and I like my mornings...god I sound old...I am!!.

I did find a problem on the reloops I don't like....I don't like the anodised tone arm...I miss the chrome one from technics

The difference between the analogue and the digital pitch is that the analogue is a traditional potentiometer, which is basically an electrical contact track that is infinitely adjustable with what is probably every micron or so of movement as the current, so to speak, provides that extra or decreased juice to the speed with more or less of a charge as the slider moves along the contact track.

As I understand it, the digital one is relaying a different form of information to the motor and the kind of "pulses" it sends are not as precise as the old potentiometer. This slight error, where the slider position may have to be moved a fraction more to send a signal that the speed should increase/decrease is where the problem seemed to come from for longer mixes - because if "Deck A" is pushing along at one end of the error spectrum and "Deck B" is pushing along at the other end of the error spectrum, over time, those decks will run out of sequence. Both decks would need to be sat in the "middle" of this error range to get perfect timing that you could leave for many minutes without having to manipulate the turntable platters to nudge or nip to keep the timing in sync.

I believe that Technics improved this technology to help reduce the distance between the "pulse signals" (so to speak), thereby making them more accurate when used as a pair of decks.

I don't personally know how bad some of the other decks were - but I trusted Just Technics on this matter as he was also a DJ who mixed progressive and trance, where the mixes are often longer than oldskool, breaks and other genres.

This was important to me, because I love to try and create smooth mixes where the incoming record literally morphs into the playing track so much in the background that it almost becomes part of the actual track and the slow fade out to the incoming track can sometimes happen and you don't even realise that the first track has ended. Oldskool is a bit different, because it isn't so much about the smoothness and transitions, but the cleverness of the combinations and the vibe it can bring.

 

[Ruffenuff]

Actually I found another problem...maybe its me and years in the construction trade....
Start up torque is 2.8 on low...and 4.5 on high...impressive, yep....technics is 1.5
But there is another torque no one talks about and this...THIS is a biggy....constant torque
Technics is 1.5........now the reloops ain't no where near that on 33 speed....probably 1....its not shit.....but I expected better, maybe this is the digital pitch.
My old decks the T80s....are spot on for constant torque
On 45 ...the reloops are solid, but 33 you can feel the weakness once you run your finger along the platter dots, it's as if the deck gets up to speed then changes gear and cruises.....it something I'm not liking and now wished I got a different set of decks......maybe I'll get used to it....Time will tell

 

[Spektral]

Actually I found another problem...maybe its me and years in the construction trade....
Start up torque is 2.8 on low...and 4.5 on high...impressive, yep....technics is 1.5
But there is another torque no one talks about and this...THIS is a biggy....constant torque
Technics is 1.5........now the reloops ain't no where near that on 33 speed....probably 1....its not shit.....but I expected better, maybe this is the digital pitch.
My old decks the T80s....are spot on for constant torque
On 45 ...the reloops are solid, but 33 you can feel the weakness once you run your finger along the platter dots, it's as if the deck gets up to speed then changes gear and cruises.....it something I'm not liking and now wished I got a different set of decks......maybe I'll get used to it....Time will tell

I think you'd adapt to that, to be honest.

I used to have belt drive DLP1s and then I had my Stanton STR8's - and whilst the latter was a decent torque I think I mixed better on the belt drives which had less.

I'd never used Technics until I bought a pair and I found the torque on those a bit too high for me at first. I was a sloppy DJ and tended to ride the platter and spindles with my fingers a lot - but that worked for me on my previous decks. On the Technics, the turntable was pushing a bit too hard to really make much of a dent in the nudging adjustment and I didn't know how I'd get on with that.

However, I have since adapted and have got used to what kind of things to do to tap and hold back the vinyl - but it has also made me slightly better at (arguably) doing things properly and tweaking the pitch control to keep time, rather than a lot of squeezing of the platter spindle etc that I used to do too much of before.

If you're like me and tend to do a bit of both methods, a slightly weaker torque overall may not be a disadvantage as it may make things more tactile and controllable.

 

[Ruffenuff]

Your completely right,....and they are good decks...
Just feels like I've brought a ferrari that does 0-60 in 3 seconds....then found out it only goes to 60

 

[Ruffenuff]

It was really bugging me the torque thing ...so I contacted the shop I brought them from coz I wanted to know if this is how it is or are they faulty.
Really helpful they were..he sent me a video showing me the torque on all the decks..reloop came 2nd to the pioneer plx 1000..all the rest were shit...one of the worst was actually Technics G
So in all the reloop are low powered to me ...compared to others there are pretty strong...

 

[Ruffenuff]

The story ain't finished...I sent the reloops back...the consistent torque was just way too low on 33 for me....to put it in context I was like a belt drive.
I personally think that they are only good for scratching .

So I'll start again

1210mk2
Pioneer plx-1000
Denon vl12

Definitely not going to buy online this time...i want to try it out

If anyone has got the Pioneer or denon...please let me know

 

[chinatownswhite]

The story ain't finished...I sent the reloops back...the consistent torque was just way too low on 33 for me....to put it in context I was like a belt drive.
I personally think that they are only good for scratching .

So I'll start again

1210mk2
Pioneer plx-1000
Denon vl12

Definitely not going to buy online this time...i want to try it out

If anyone has got the Pioneer or denon...please let me know

A friend of mine had a pair of Denon vl12 going a few yrs back now, he got shot of them after 6 months he didn't like the tone arm quality being a bit to light.

He ended up going back too 1210mk2s, infact he brought back his own 1210mk2s from the person he sold um too about 17 yrs ago, but paid double what he sold um for

Ive just looked at the price of the 1210mk2s unreal how much they have gone up in price

IMO your deffo doing the right thing by wanting to try the equipment out.

WestendDJ sell the Pioneer plx-1000 they have 2 shops in London, not sure if they are still open, I went in there yrs ago (Tottenham Court Road) to look at mixers and I could not fault them, they were so helpful and non pushy, and did not try to sell me something that I didn't need, I left the shop come back up to the midlands, and made my order online 2 days later.

 

[Ruffenuff]

..I can certainly belive it...I always dream if I ever won the lottery I would buy my old decks back.
No idea who I sold them to...2 geezers answered my ad in Loot.
So how would I know there mine, well back in the day I had to replace both pop up bulbs , so while I was changing I noticed I could scratch the internal chassis, to me it felt like slate....so I wrote me dj name and probably something silly...I won't say what, because if I win the lottery...I would offer 10k for each deck...imagine them coming back home to papa.
In other news I have a mate who I keep in touch with...he still has his OG'S...ive been sending him offers...cash and my stanton....he ain't having it...even tho he don't use them no more..
Some nice shops in Tottenham Court Road...haven't been that way for ages...even tho I live in London I tend to not travel inwards..for me it's easier to drive to Guildford sound and light....I might do that tomorrow....if I get back from work in good time

 

[Ruffenuff]

Well it's even a journey,
Found a set of deno vl12 on ebay but the bloke was taking the piss with the price eventually the ad dissappeared...he also had them on facebonk..messaged him and agreed a price and I was going to drive down and collect them 70 odd miles....suddenly they are back on ebay and he left the message chat...wanker hate people who don't keep deals.
Another facebonk this time for a set of pioneer plx1000...£500.... chatting all week , then a hour before I was going to get them....message saying sorry sold....is facebonk always like that.
Finally and via ebay I got the PERFECT set of decks....these were not even on my radar...anyhoo yhey have just arrived and they are everything I wanted
So search over...I got some Stanton ST150 m2....and they came with concorde carts, they are mint

 

[chinatownswhite]

Well it's even a journey,
Found a set of deno vl12 on ebay but the bloke was taking the piss with the price eventually the ad dissappeared...he also had them on facebonk..messaged him and agreed a price and I was going to drive down and collect them 70 odd miles....suddenly they are back on ebay and he left the message chat...wanker hate people who don't keep deals.
Another facebonk this time for a set of pioneer plx1000...£500.... chatting all week , then a hour before I was going to get them....message saying sorry sold....is facebonk always like that.
Finally and via ebay I got the PERFECT set of decks....these were not even on my radar...anyhoo yhey have just arrived and they are everything I wanted
So search over...I got some Stanton ST150 m2....and they came with concorde carts, they are mint

Glad ya finally got sorted

That Face Ache is full of strange ones, I dont use it but the wife does, more for the dog groups and a bit of buying and selling.
Here's a few examples that we have dealt with.

Dog
Our dog had to be neutered due to the new law, so the wife asks on the Bully group "what's best recovery vest or will cone be ok, has ive heard mixed veiws"
Everyone came back saying recovery vest 100%, anyway some gal (who she has spoke too loads on there before) says to my Mrs, I have a large and medium vest, you can have them for free, dont go buying one, just pass um on to the next person who needs one, weeks go by, getting close to the dog being done, we ask when she was going to send etc, said we would pay postage or even buy them.
She then blocked the Wife, not long after the dog had his op the wife posted some pics of him saying hes doing well etc, all of a sudden this gal is posting nice coms about the dog and the wife is unblocked

Plants.
Our house is like a indoor jungle tbh.
Anyways some fella in the next town is selling some really nice indoor plants, I was like yep tell him we will buy um, guy said yep no probs, come tomoz to pick up.
Everyday for a week he said come over tomoz, I'm busy etc, in the end the Mrs said do you still want to sell these plants, please let us know, wanka come back and said sorry sold um last week.

Van parts
I had loads of parts off my old Berlingo that I scrapped, headlights, wing mirrors, wheels, I took off everything that I could sell on.
Some fella wanted pretty much everything, a good few hundred quid's worth, he said he was going on his hols for 2 weeks that weekend, so will I keep um for him until he gets back, he begged me not to sell them to anyone else, 2 weeks went past, so sent a msg saying let me know when your ready to collect the parts pal and I will send you my addy.
I had no reply, yet the wife had seen him posting on other items for sale etc, left it 3 more days I msg him again asking when are you ready to collect the parts, 2 more days no reply, tried calling etc no answer ...

I said to the Mrs put the stuff back up for sale, within 5 mins of being back on there and he's sending my Mrs snotty msgs saying he had first dibs on them, anyway some old fella said he would take them, the orig buyer pipes up saying I will offer you more, wife said no you have messed us about etc, the guy has just picked all the parts with no hassle and was a great person to sell too.

Next thing ya know my phones ringing and its him shouting down the blower with loads of abuse