Stereo & Speakers

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

I don't think anyone is claiming that cables and interconnects won't have an effect. It's a question of cheap vs expensive and there being no audible difference.

Obviously if you had half a mile of single strand copper wire, it's not going to perform the same as half a mile of wire that's 6 inches thick.

Providing the wire is thick enough for the job, you will NOT hear a difference. And thick wire doesn't mean it has to be expensive.

ROFL where did cheap vs expensive ever get mentioned?
I certainly never mentioned it.
Like I said yesterday when you started trying to pick holes in my argument, the original point made was that the OP should try and get some speaker cable chucked in for free when he bought his amp, rather than using (to quote your words) "wire ripped out of the back of a dishwasher".
Make whatever claims you like, what I told him was sound advice.
LOL

 

[blue jammer]

LOL but nobody in this thread ever said anything about "special cables"...
Nor is it all to do with high frequencies.
See the study extracts in the above post.
The question is, "does speaker cable affect the way a system sounds".
The answer is yes. Not opinion. Fact.

If you're getting separates for the first time, it's daft connecting up your amp and speakers with any old shite cable you have lying around, if for free (or cheap) you can get some that's designed to do the job.

As for CD Player stands, there's never been any scientific evidence to support (geddit) the idea that you need anything other than a rigid base to stand a CD player on. That's totally different to the cable argument though, because the speaker cable argument is backed by proven facts.

That's not to say manufacturers won't exploit it to turn a coin (like the glass CD player stands) of course they will. But to say "cables don't make a difference" is not only factually wrong, it's really daft as well.

I don't buy any of it for a minute, it's bullshit to me, sorry but I have heard identical setups with ordinary cables and silver oxygen free cables and not a single person could tell any difference between the two other than the price.

Anyone who gets taken in by this and spends their cash is foolish in my eyes.

If it makes you happy that you enjoy what you think is a "better" sound, that's great

 

[ilovepiano]

the original point made was that the OP should try and get some speaker cable chucked in for free when he bought his amp

Actually, your original point was "don't neglect the speaker wire"



Edit - you actually said cables

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

I don't buy any of it for a minute, it's bullshit to me, sorry but I have heard identical setups with ordinary cables and silver oxygen free cables and not a single person could tell any difference between the two other than the price.

Anyone who gets taken in by this and spends their cash is foolish in my eyes.

If it makes you happy that you enjoy what you think is a "better" sound, that's great

ROFL That's the point, it's totally subjective, and more expensive does not mean better. And there are no guarantees a given system and 2 different cable types will sound any different.

But facts are facts. Different cables perform differently and this will affect sound.

Being closed-minded in denial of facts is foolish in my eyes

Nobody's saying you've got to spend loads... only that it's something you should consider when buying separates

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

Actually, your original point was "don't neglect the speaker wire"
Edit - you actually said cables

Oh dear... Pedant alert
What I actually said was...

if you do go in to Richer Sounds it's always worth having a bit of a haggle with them. Quite often they'll throw in a bit of speaker cable or summat if it will swing a sale, and better speaker cable is a useful upgrade (depending on what you've got already).

I really don't see why you have such issues with that statement lol

 

[blue jammer]

Perfectly valid statement, scientifically proven and backed up by opinion throughout the audio & HiFi community.

Whereas you & BJ just think any old speaker cable will do because, to paraphrase BJ "I tried the same system with 2 different cables & didn't notice a difference"

I have heard identical setups with ordinary cables and silver oxygen free cables and not a single person could tell any difference between the two other than the price.

You missed the important part out, typically

There were 5 people in the same shop (none of us had had any drugs the night before either!) and none of us could hear any difference. :|

"facts" on paper are never going to change what people hear, theory over reality just won't wash and it will always be a minority of people that will be taken in with all the hype.

 

[ilovepiano]

What I actually said was...

if you do go in to Richer Sounds it's always worth having a bit of a haggle with them. Quite often they'll throw in a bit of speaker cable or summat if it will swing a sale, and better speaker cable is a useful upgrade (depending on what you've got already).

I never said that you didn't say that, but you said that was your original point. It wasn't. Your first post on the thread was number 5 and you said "Don't neglect yer cables"

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

You missed the important part out, typically
There were 5 people in the same shop (none of us had had any drugs the night before either!) and none of us could hear any difference. :|

Oh be serious

You did a single test on one system with 2 cables and 5 people in a shop... Hardly a conclusive test or proof of anything. But if you choose to make sweeping generalisations about the affect of cables in HiFi systems based on that, more fool you.

"facts" on paper are never going to change what people hear

Nope, but they support my argument that cables affect sound, and disprove your asertion that they make no difference

theory over reality just won't wash and it will always be a minority of people that will be taken in with all the hype.

ROFL well, the "reality" of the tests done by the founder of Cerwin Vega, and the "reality" of opinion expressed in a 21 page thread on the subject quoted yesterday would carry rather more weight than your 5 person test in a shop.

I think you're the one who is not facing reality!

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

"Don't neglect yer cables"

So my saying "don't neglect yer cables" is what you're making all this fuss about?
Why? What's so wrong with that as a piece of advice to someone looking in to buying an amp?
Cables matter in HiFi systems.
Be as pedantic as you like, but it's proven. End of Story.

 

[blue jammer]

Oh be serious

I am serious Mr McEnroe

You did a single test on one system with 2 cables and 5 people in a shop... Hardly a conclusive test or proof of anything. But if you choose to make sweeping generalisations about the affect of cables in HiFi systems based on that, more fool you.

99% of people won't read a 21 page thread when buying Hi-Fi separates, they instead will use the two things at the side of their heads (go on, give them a wiggle)

Nope, but they support my argument that cables affect sound, and disprove your asertion that they make no difference

Unless you are a dog

ROFL well, the "reality" of the tests done by the founder of Cerwin Vega, and the "reality" of opinion expressed in a 21 page thread on the subject quoted yesterday would carry rather more weight than your 5 person test in a shop.

I think you're the one who is not facing reality!

Not to 99% of people it wouldn't though, face facts here friend, it's always going to be the minority who are taken in by this. You can quote from as many sources as are available on the net, but it won't change a thing - the majority are ruled by their ears.

 

[Konspiracy]

Well, if you want to waste your money, then that's fine by me.

If you've a spare 10 mins YouTube - The Truth about Monster cables, Best Buy & Future Shop

Interesting stuff that, cheers for the link Tim

Ive always had my suspicions about the cabling industry supporting the sale of TVs and Hifis. The last time I splurged on electronics I had a conversation with the manager at Sevenoaks and he insinuated its a con, although he wouldnt admit it outright!

Variations in quality are usually standardised, as they are in the Structured Cabling industry supporting building installations. Cat 6 is the standard for Gigabit Ethernet, Cat 5 for 100Meg, Cat 3 for analog voice etc I dont see anything similar for TVs etc. The problem for Joe Bloggs who isnt an expert is all the magazines, What Hifi etc constantly stress the importance of spending loads of money on cables, and it is easy to be sucked in.

 

[ilovepiano]

So my saying "don't neglect yer cables" is what you're making all this fuss about?
Why? What's so wrong with that as a piece of advice to someone looking in to buying an amp?
Cables matter in HiFi systems.
Be as pedantic as you like, but it's proven. End of Story.

Well, you believe what you want to, and I'll believe what I want to.

Here's a link to a long thread with 'for and against' links. Let people have a read and make up their own minds.

The cables debate evidence thread - AVForums.com

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

Well, you believe what you want to, and I'll believe what I want to.

Here's a link to a long thread with 'for and against' links. Let people have a read and make up their own minds.

The cables debate evidence thread - AVForums.com

LOL Of course everyone should make up their own mind
But irrespective of anyone's opinion on this, I stand by the advice I gave the OP.

If anyone is interested, here's the science. An interesting read if you like this topic...
Loudspeakers: Effects of amplifiers and cables - Part 4 | Audio DesignLine
Loudspeakers: Effects of amplifiers and cables - Part 5 | Audio DesignLine

And here's another discussion thread, again showing both sides.
How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system? - Page 21 - Audio Video Revolution Forum

Like I said yesterday though whichever thread you read, the vast majority of opinion is in favour of auditioning cables, just as you should audition any component in a system really.
That wouldn't be the case if the cables didn't make a difference.

 

[blue jammer]

Standard cables Vs. High End cables... FIGHT!!!

Bring on the wall

At least music chat has been busy today eh

All we need now is Monty to pop in and diss house music and tilt to give us a poll

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

99% of people won't read a 21 page thread when buying Hi-Fi separates, they instead will use the two things at the side of their heads (go on, give them a wiggle)

Oh gawd... the 21 page thread demonstrates the proven scientific principle that cables affect sound quality. It's called evidence. Of course people should buy what they like the sound of (which I also advised the OP). Don't suppose you bothered reading it though.

Unless you are a dog

LOL nope, you just need normal functioning ears, the right equipment, and the right music

Not to 99% of people it wouldn't though, face facts here friend, it's always going to be the minority who are taken in by this. You can quote from as many sources as are available on the net, but it won't change a thing - the majority are ruled by their ears.

ROFL you haven't quoted any facts! Your 5 person test in a shop is hardly factual. And (if you read through any of the long threads on this subject) you'll see that your "99% of people won't know the difference" claim is completely untrue.

Those are not "facts" they are the opinions of people who are ruled by their ears...
LOL

In summary, my views are backed by the opinions of lots of others (as shown in the discussion threads) and by scientific fact (the tests).
Dispute it all you like based on 5 people in a shop, but you're only deluding yourself.

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

in the Structured Cabling industry supporting building installations. Cat 6 is the standard for Gigabit Ethernet, Cat 5 for 100Meg, Cat 3 for analog voice etc

Chalk and cheese.
Each of those standards just defines a minimum expected performance
HiFi is about maximising performance.

I dont see anything similar for TVs etc. The problem for Joe Bloggs who isnt an expert is all the magazines, What Hifi etc constantly stress the importance of spending loads of money on cables, and it is easy to be sucked in.

ROFL I've certainly never advocated "spending loads of money on cables".
But they affect the sound of a system, and so should be considered just like any other component

 

[nics]

ha ha ha im absolutly killin meself with laughter here.......

he said, she said, i dint say, yes you did,

why dont you let the good folk of osser decide.......do a poll high end V's low end and lets see their opinion


and im fooked if im reading a 21 page thread

jeeeezus.......the guy only wanted advice

 

[Mr Radish]

Tin can and some string works mint!

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

ha ha ha im absolutly killin meself with laughter here.......

he said, she said, i dint say, yes you did,

why dont you let the good folk of osser decide.......do a poll high end V's low end and lets see their opinion


and im fooked if im reading a 21 page thread

jeeeezus.......the guy only wanted advice

And he got it
Then he got conflicting advice, which led to the discussion.
Nowt wrong with that, sometimes it's good to discuss stuff

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

Tin can and some string works mint!

Jammer? Have you been logging in as other people again?