The ups and downs of a MCFC fan!
- Thread starter Jonno
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City getting a load of cash has not ruined football. It's done the exact opposite for me.
City fans have had it the hardest out of any other fans in the country. When we have been yoyoing through divisions, in debt up to our eyeballs. our local rivals have been totally dominating and rubbing it in out faces. yet for some reason we have stuck by our team through thick and thin and just hoped something came good.
Now its come good, we might fall flat on our faces in the long run, but fcuk it, we can compete with the rag ba5tards now and I'm gonna enjoy it.
City fans have had it the hardest out of any other fans in the country. When we have been yoyoing through divisions, in debt up to our eyeballs. our local rivals have been totally dominating and rubbing it in out faces. yet for some reason we have stuck by our team through thick and thin and just hoped something came good.
Now its come good, we might fall flat on our faces in the long run, but fcuk it, we can compete with the rag ba5tards now and I'm gonna enjoy it.
I'm not saying that it's just City getting a Billionaire take over that's the problem. It's all of them Easty.
Take Chelsea. . .Nothing team in my opinion. . . A few hundred million later and they have bought their way to the top table in 12 months.
A hundred plus years of league history, just overturned by a rich Russian oil man who has no connection with the club?
The pecking order in football, like it or lump it. . .is also the history of the game and there are reasons why some clubs are where they are. Just changing all that with a rich man and a string of foreign mercenaries. . . well it's a bit hollow when the success comes in my book.
I know money has always played a part in the game and there have always been the have's and have not's, but this is something totally different.
Our clubs are either been used as investment vehicles or as a rich mans play-thing. These new owners and their advisors on the board who have the power, now seem to want the glory also. This is why we see decent managers been humiliated by people who know very little about the game who want to pick the squad and the team.
I wish City luck, their fans deserve it more than most. . . but while you are rubbing your hands with glee. . .spare a thought for what is happening to football at the moment and what could happen to the game in the future.
The picture says more in a second than I managed writing this.
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Are you saying that the top teams should always be the top teams and that's just how it should be? I'm sorry but what a load of pish. The current pecking order in football is by no means the history of the game. What about Notts Forest, or Derby or Leeds or to go back further Wolves or Shef Wednesday or even Burnley? These were major teams in their day but have fallen by the wayside. Football changes all the time. The big 4's dominance won't last forever, some will fall from that pedestal and others will take their place. That's always been the case.
Over and above that, what about the supporters of Everton or Villa or even Hull or Stoke or Sunderland - should their fans never hope that their team could be the best in England, ever? Should their hope be for a good cup run or just to stay in the Premier League every single season year on year? Should they just know their place because there is a "pecking order in football" and it's "the history of the game"? Of course they shouldn't.
The only way any team is going to break into the top 4 these days is with money unfortunately. Man City certainly didn't create that situation but that is definitely the way it is these days. The days of an English club like Notts Forest or Villa holding up the European Cup (or even EPL) without serious investment has long long gone. I hope it changes, but I'm not gonna begrudge any team that gets the investment to challenge the top 4 (except maybe West Ham).
Does it say more than a picture of a Russian holding up a Chelsea shirt, or a Yank holding up a Liverpool or United or Villa shirt? If it does - why?
I'm personally chuffed for Man City and I'm chuffed that it looks like someone else is finally gonna break into the top 4 hierachy. The money situation has been around for a long time already and most fans I know from other teams have got used to it - they might not agree with it, mind, but they've got used to it. The one's that seem to be complaining the most are those whose teams might be knocked off their top 4 pedestal.
A lot of what you say is correct BUT , whos fault is it that Man City have had it rough over the years ? they cry and winge over the least little thing .... ' oh we've had it soooo bad ' well i tell you what , you should have stopped sacking your managers at every opportunity shouldn't you.
You go on about the likes of Burnley , Sheff wed and again who's fault is it that these teams have gone by the way side ?
It happened at my club when we appointed Graham Souness , a bad appointment and we are paying for it still as it coincided with the boom in football and Man United took the mantle ................ the thing is Man United did it with hard work , sweat and tears , remember it took 5 years for Alex to get things right. He may be able to sign 30 million pound players now but dont you think he has earned that right ?????
Let me tell you something else aswell what you may or may not know , back in the days not long after the war Matt Busby dragged that club up from the ashes when the ground had been bombed so badly that they never even had running water , he did it with GRAFT , Bill Shankly dragged our club from the second division and he did it with GRAFT so if your saying we don't deserve our place at the top of the game im afraid i have to disagree because its not just since the birth of sky tv that we have been knocking around , its decades of blood , sweat and tears that has got us to the place that we are now.
Like i said in a previous post ... we got our money because we were great , others will become great because of money and thats what i disagree with.
Oh and one other thing Everton did break into that top 4 with limited funds , so you are totally wrong on one of the points you made above.
I hope that clarifies some of the incorrect assumptions you drew from my note Jonno.
)In fact i'm going to go into this a bit deeper and of the top of my head ( even if some people may go google hunting for facts and figures )
If you gave me the choice of reverting back to the old division one or carry on as we are now i would sincerley take it ( as would most people ) but that isn't going to happen and is why the common opinion is that this kind of investment is killing the game.
Now your opinion Jonno is that we are winging because someone may take our place in the top four is so wide of the mark its untrue ,
Heres why ..... Of the top of my head i can name a few teams that under the old division one banner challenged for us for THE TITLE not just the top four year in year out and i welcomed the challenge.
Ipswich Town
Chrystal Palace
Man City
Derby County
and even Norwich as recent as the 90's
They did it with hard work not some billionaires pocket change , it spawned manager like Bobby Robson and gave coaches like Mike Walker a place in the sun, Mark Hughes has done great things so far in his management career , do you think he will be around if he has one indifferent season ... i think not.
You had teams like Oldham making a mark and even came to Anfield and won so to say that investment brings in fairness is absolute bollocks. it brings even more elitism into the game and widens the gap even more.
Do you think its fair that Arsene Wenger , who works and performs miracles with standard funds should now have to compete with a club just because some one with endless pots of money has rolled into town , years of hard work down the drain ??????? tell you what , why dont teams go out and find another Arsene and do it the right way ?????
And before people start banging on about Champions League monet ... ITS PRIZE MONEY AND YOU GET IT COS YOU'VE EARNED IT
If you gave me the choice of reverting back to the old division one or carry on as we are now i would sincerley take it ( as would most people ) but that isn't going to happen and is why the common opinion is that this kind of investment is killing the game.
Now your opinion Jonno is that we are winging because someone may take our place in the top four is so wide of the mark its untrue ,
Heres why ..... Of the top of my head i can name a few teams that under the old division one banner challenged for us for THE TITLE not just the top four year in year out and i welcomed the challenge.
Ipswich Town
Chrystal Palace
Man City
Derby County
and even Norwich as recent as the 90's
They did it with hard work not some billionaires pocket change , it spawned manager like Bobby Robson and gave coaches like Mike Walker a place in the sun, Mark Hughes has done great things so far in his management career , do you think he will be around if he has one indifferent season ... i think not.
You had teams like Oldham making a mark and even came to Anfield and won so to say that investment brings in fairness is absolute bollocks. it brings even more elitism into the game and widens the gap even more.
Do you think its fair that Arsene Wenger , who works and performs miracles with standard funds should now have to compete with a club just because some one with endless pots of money has rolled into town , years of hard work down the drain ??????? tell you what , why dont teams go out and find another Arsene and do it the right way ?????
And before people start banging on about Champions League monet ... ITS PRIZE MONEY AND YOU GET IT COS YOU'VE EARNED IT
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No disagreeing that your glory years were because you were great - same as any other team pre Premiership team though. My point is you are only able to compete now because of money. The same goes for any other team who want to compete for titles - Man City included. And as such I'm not gonna begrudge them doing so as that's now the nature of top flight football in this country.
That's true, Everton were the blip on that particular point. Could they sustain it though? Could they fuck. Next year business as usual with the top 4. Why? Because they didn't get the money needed to challenge the top 4 consistently. Plus should 4th place become the league title for non top 4 clubs? Of course it shouldn't.
My point is this; top flight football now is different than it was even 20 years ago. You need money to seriously challenge for titles now. No club "deserves" to have money any more than any other club - do Notts Forest deserve new money because their club grafted in the past? Of course not. Until something changes, the nature of football today seems to be who has the most money. I'd much prefer it if wasn't the case but unfortunately it is and I have to live with that or not watch football. As a neutral though in the current footballing climate, I'd prefer to see the top 4 hierachy change so that it isn't the same teams winning every season.
Of course I personally think the bubble is gonna burst sooner or later somehow, look at West Ham - even with a sizeable fan base their books aren't balancing and they had to sell players they didn't want to. Sunderland are spending too much IMO, Fulham and Stoke too. Man City were in serious trouble before the Arabs came in. It's not just fees, it's wages as well. For the smaller clubs wages takes up the biggest chunk of turnover - 70-80%. With football being businesses these days, unless they are a billionaire's plaything, they have to balance the books. Didn't Wenger say recently that he had to make profits on players to meet the interest payments on the Emirates? That can't be a good business situation to be in, in fact it seems like madness to me - normal big businesses wouldn't work in that way. It seems to me that many are on financial shaky ground and something will have to give. I suspect we'll see a few Leeds type scenarios in the years to come - who knows maybe with one of the bigger clubs as well.
As it stands though, fans of the lower clubs just have to hope theirs is the next club to get rich!
You seem to be misunderstanding me. I have consistently said I don't like the current situation. In fact I'd love it to be the way it was. That ain't gonna make it so though, no matter how much you or I or any other footy fan wants it to.
What we have now is a situation where any team that wants to seriously compete (not just hope for a slim chance of 4th place but for titles) has to spend money, lots of it. So for a more level playing field today more clubs need more money - that's why I'm not gonna begrudge Man City getting it. It will at least hopefully make a change for us neutrals.
Of course the best case scenario is for it to go back to how it was, but I think we'll just have to dream on that one for the moment.
Abu Dhabi United is the name of the company that took over City. The bloke isn't just from Abu Dhabi and would therefore like Man City to be called Abu Dhabi United instead :| The company is called "Abu Dhabi United Group for Development and Investment" - it would have been Kellogs or Natwest if that had been the company name but it isn't.
So I still fail to see how this takeover is any different than Chelsea's or Villa's or Liverpool's or Man U takeovers?
And why couldn't Everton sustain it ???? i'll tell you why , because they never made the group stages so thats tough shit , if they did they may of raked in some more money and therefor pushed on . You get what you earn and they earned fuck all ..... are you saying they should be given something for nothing ( of course your not ) the point is they had a chance and never took it.
its the same with Newcastle , Blackburn and leeds ... you've all had a slice of the pie and its your own faults that you never made it work .
Liverpool have had to qualify nearly every year for the group stages and have done so , we have also won it and largely due to the fact that the board revognised that we had no money and hired a coach with a proven track record of operating on limited funds. Thats the job of the board and thats why for every Liverpool theres a Leeds and thats why i have no guilt of occupying a top four place for so long
Now lets get back to the point in hand.....
Heres a senario ... Rafa goes and spends 20 million on Torres and he flops , that could be crippling for my club.
What happens if Robinho flops ???? fuck all thats what , the same with shevchenko , veron , glen johnson , geremi , maluoda etc etc . spo how the fuck can that be good for the game ????
Im glad Man City have abbundant money now as it will throw a spanner in the works of the big fours monopoly of the premiership. Sadly it will be at the loss of what i regard as one of the few bigger clubs that has a true local fanbase.
Football died in this country the day that the 1st division (proper) went and footy sold its soul to sky. They are money grabbing bastards who dont give a s**t about grass roots football and only chase the cash. Football to me is tribal and rivalry is based on this countrys regional history. I dont give a toss about Real Madrid or AC milan and never will. If we beat our rivals in any given season im happy as i have bragging rights. Bugs me that teams with considerable history are being turned into toy clubs and people pretend that they actually mean something still
Face it they have all lost their soul and purpose.
End of rant
Football died in this country the day that the 1st division (proper) went and footy sold its soul to sky. They are money grabbing bastards who dont give a s**t about grass roots football and only chase the cash. Football to me is tribal and rivalry is based on this countrys regional history. I dont give a toss about Real Madrid or AC milan and never will. If we beat our rivals in any given season im happy as i have bragging rights. Bugs me that teams with considerable history are being turned into toy clubs and people pretend that they actually mean something still
Face it they have all lost their soul and purpose.End of rant
All that's very true, and it isn't good for the game, but how can you compete for the title these days against Man U or Chelsea without money to chuck about though? That's why Liverpool and Arsenal are most at risk from Man City. But as a neutral and the way football is today, I don't mind a club like City coming in and having a go by spending big money.
This may sound daft but I don't mind the two most obvious outcomes that much:
1) City really do start to challenge for the title etc, which for me would be good to see them break up the top 4 - on the whole I like City fans and they really have had some serious lows as well as highs.
2) They don't manage it even with all the money they spend (as Newcastle or Spurs etc have done before them albeit with a lesser budget), in which case it's just more quality entertainment from City.
As for Everton or Leeds or Blackburn not taking their chances - that's definitely true (although we did win the league). For all the talk of money bringing success, it doesn't guarentee success, but I suppose that's what makes it more interesting in the current money driven world.
I have probably got less to complain about than other fans though. My season ticket costs me only £299 in the Blackburn End to watch Premier League footy (£99 for juniors as well), we don't have anyone playing for us who is a money grabbing overpaid ponce, we have a ground based in a traditional location, and our finances, although a little bare, are in reasonable order. We manage to play decent football as well! Come the revolution we'll be alright.
D
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hi ho hi ho weve signed robinho with elano and jo our brazilan trio its up the table we go! hi ho hi ho"
And there lies my point , so what they have had there lows , they've brought it on themselves.
You talk about this monopoly , well it may suprise you to know that Liverpool have only competed in the Champions League 6 times ( i think ) so we had to fight our way and earn the right to be back among Europes elite , you had a chance and so did Newcastle and Leeds and you never took it which is tough luck.
Without champions league football we never sat and whinged about it , we went and won the Uefa cup instead , a trophy that plenty of clubs from this country ( including Man City ) have or had the chance to do.
We did it with home grown players such as Owen , Fowler , Carragher .. with players who cost next to nothing like Hypia , Henchoz, Westerveld and Danny Murphy and with free transfers such as Markus Babel and Gary Mcallister so the preconception that the rich have always had it that way is untrue.
We had to fight our way back and we did, other clubs should stop moaning and try and do the same.
The problem nowadays if you're a smaller club though is if you are doing well, bigger clubs come in for your best players, and it means you can't have the same level of consistency that bigger clubs can. The only way you can keep your best players is having more money, and even then it's not a certainty. Attracting better players to smaller club is difficult too. These are real problems for the smaller clubs and that's why it's incredibly difficult for them to compete.
Aside from that Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea have all been performing very well for a very long time, and fans get sick of the same old, same old. It's natural. Man U were on top for ages, everyone hated them. Arsenal and Chelsea took over for a while and Man U suddenly weren't so bad. I don't know what it is but people don't like to see teams doing so well for long periods - they like to see a bit of change. I'm sure you've been in more than 6 Champions League's btw - I can't think of any seasons since 2000 you've not been in the mix, there was that season you were 5th but you still got in, could be wrong mind. Probably my point though, fans have a short memory, you might well have been only doing well for 7 years or so but that seems a long time in football, and it seems to me that it's been ages since anyone but the top 4 looked likely to win the League. So all hail Abu Dhabi United
Ha Ha only just seen this ...... thought it through though haven't you Easty
Give us 135 million to improve on an already vastly superior squad to yours thats a great way to surpass your challengers
Feel free mate , the sooner the better
BBC sport:
Robinho makes Man City move gaffe
Robinho had to be reminded he had joined Man City and not Chelsea
Robinho's career at Manchester City has not got off to the smoothest start following his switch from Real Madrid.
The Brazilian stunned football by making a £32.5m move to Eastlands and not, as expected, to Londoners Chelsea.
However, it appears the 24-year-old's deadline day move has still to sink in.
"On the last day, Chelsea made me a great proposal and I accepted it," he said, to which a reporter replied: "You mean Manchester right?". "Yeah, Manchester, sorry!" answered Robinho.
Robinho makes Man City move gaffe
Robinho had to be reminded he had joined Man City and not Chelsea
Robinho's career at Manchester City has not got off to the smoothest start following his switch from Real Madrid.
The Brazilian stunned football by making a £32.5m move to Eastlands and not, as expected, to Londoners Chelsea.
However, it appears the 24-year-old's deadline day move has still to sink in.
"On the last day, Chelsea made me a great proposal and I accepted it," he said, to which a reporter replied: "You mean Manchester right?". "Yeah, Manchester, sorry!" answered Robinho.
The problem nowadays if you're a smaller club though is if you are doing well, bigger clubs come in for your best players, and it means you can't have the same level of consistency that bigger clubs can. The only way you can keep your best players is having more money, and even then it's not a certainty. Attracting better players to smaller club is difficult too. These are real problems for the smaller clubs and that's why it's incredibly difficult for them to compete.
Aside from that Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea have all been performing very well for a very long time, and fans get sick of the same old, same old. It's natural. Man U were on top for ages, everyone hated them. Arsenal and Chelsea took over for a while and Man U suddenly weren't so bad. I don't know what it is but people don't like to see teams doing so well for long periods - they like to see a bit of change. I'm sure you've been in more than 6 Champions League's btw - I can't think of any seasons since 2000 you've not been in the mix, there was that season you were 5th but you still got in, could be wrong mind. Probably my point though, fans have a short memory, you might well have been only doing well for 7 years or so but that seems a long time in football, and it seems to me that it's been ages since anyone but the top 4 looked likely to win the League. So all hail Abu Dhabi United
We competed in it for the first time in the year of 9/11 deffo because we played that night it was 2002 i think. And Liverpool have never looked like winning the league for years but ive never been on here bleating about what Man U have spent , you just get on with it.
We are going off on a tagent anyway , you think its good for the game and i don't and i have stated my reasons without going into the fantastic youth set up Man City have and what will happen to that .
