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granthamdisco

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Amazing Deejay said:
I think what he's refering to is, House although influenced from Disco, is not disco. It's Electronic, possibly 100% electronic..., and it's own entity. What Frankie & Hardy were doing with the reel-to-reels, with the disco beats was extremely primitive. The string of releases in 1986-1987 onwards to me really defines what House is. I know that there were earlier releases on Mitchbal, Jessay, and even Chip E's label, but they were nothing compared to what was to come out on Trax or DJ International. The reference to Italo Disco is due to the more electronic sound that those records had, as opposed to Salsoul sound. The Salsoul sound was old and phasing out by this time.
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I agree about Gherkin but to say DISCO wasnt a huge part is wrong

House was DISCOs revenge

Love cant turn around is Isaac Hayes / Jack Your Body is a First Choice Bassline
 
siman91

siman91

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granthamdisco said:
I agree about Gherkin but to say DISCO wasnt a huge part is wrong

House was DISCOs revenge

Love cant turn around is Isaac Hayes / Jack Your Body is a First Choice Bassline
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The word you are looking for is INFLUENCE, house was influenced by all styles of music however the Chi guys grew up with Pilly, NY and Chi disco and therefore this crept into their production and dj'ing styles as it is the music they knew. This is also demonstrated by techno which was developed and influenced by electro but originally came from the house influence.

Just listen to very early house, Single Girl is nothing like disco (original pressing B side) as is On & On even Waiting on my angel or Your Love are not that that close to disco. It is only as the sound developed it picked up the disco INFLUENCE again.

S
 
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granthamdisco

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siman91 said:
The word you are looking for is INFLUENCE, house was influenced by all styles of music however the Chi guys grew up with Pilly, NY and Chi disco and therefore this crept into their production and dj'ing styles as it is the music they knew. This is also demonstrated by techno which was developed and influenced by electro but originally came from the house influence.

Just listen to very early house, Single Girl is nothing like disco (original pressing B side) as is On & On even Waiting on my angel or Your Love are not that that close to disco. It is only as the sound developed it picked up the disco INFLUENCE again.

S
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Siman

I think we are agreeing as Influence is what Im talking about

Good that we are having thid debate on a thread about Sasha & Prog Trance:)
 
M

Monty

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Apr 8, 2006
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Instead of guitar solos, they gave the world the sound of ping-ponging synthesizers. Instead of rhythms created by banging a stick against a snare drum, they made the music wiggle by playing machines with their fingertips. The band is Kraftwerk, and its innovations paved the way for the last 20 years of electronic pop music. It would not be an exaggeration to describe this quartet from Dusseldorf, Germany, as the founding fathers of TECHNO!, the Beatles of electronica.

The Beatles Of Electronica - Chicago Tribune

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqlx_8MtoSk]Kraftwerk, and the Electronic revolution (1/19) - YouTube[/ame]
 
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Monty

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YPiCeLwh5o]Kraftwerk - Numbers - YouTube[/ame]

Comments on this video are wicked!..

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Kraftwerk = GOLD. Extraordinary genius.
The more you listen to them, and the older you grow, the more AMAZING these guys are!
Phenomenal group - I am not worthy before them (truly, I feel inferior)

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This reminds me of the summer of 81 in the city of Detroit. and yard parties. We danced to music like this allnight. YES, this is real dance music.

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Yes 100 percent absolutely agree. What I loved was back in the early 1980's when you could hear folks walking around blasting 'Numbers' on their shoulder-perched boomboxes or driving in their loud car stereos. Seeing Kraftwerk perform in person years later in SFO and NYC was a high I can't forget.

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The voices are coming from a little electronic translation device, probably one of the first ever. When Kraftwerk started there was very little electronic gear available, they build half the stuff themselves and used anything they could get their hands on.

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still, you are right; Kraftwerk is the foundation and have not been recognized at all!

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So good for a 1981 release. These guys were so ahead of their time with this album it's crazy. I just wish that I had discovered this album before now!

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I can't stop grooving - these are the sounds that occupy my brain - I must have been a machine in a past life. This rules!

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These guys PIONEERED THE SYNTH! How are they not rewarded!? Man...

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makes me want to break dance....

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this sounds like digital pot smoking music

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When was this made. This is history and one of the most important tracks in electro
 
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Monty

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Apr 8, 2006
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Might as well close this thread now! i have shown that Techno/Electro/Hip Hop has nothing to do with House.

If you want to know more about Hardcore/Jungle/Drum & Bass just ask! i be happy to help on that also i can go into the studio wizardry side of things (new studio techniques) mind sets like MIND FUK! PARANOIA! DARKNESS! (same as the Metal days Black Sabbath) side of music but electronic!..Hardcore bringing you to a new side of electronica,a side of Hardcore why it exploded the way it did!..the Phonophobia side of music (why some can not listen to it) how different Hardcore is to House.

This is a better Kraftwerk longer version! :D

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sbvylpwah8]Kraftwerk - Numbers / Computer World.. 2 (Slayd5000) - YouTube[/ame]
 
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A

Amazing Deejay

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Jul 18, 2011
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siman91 said:
Nearly all post 84 dance music is sub genres of House including Jungle, Techno etc. The odd exceptions are Electro (true electro that is), Italian Disco and Electronic Pop.

Just my strong opinion!

S
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True but the techno guys would never want to admit that. I find it strange how so many people are anti-house, or they want to try and shake the association with it.

The is the same I get when I read that Mixmag article by the writer who broadcasted the word "Progressive House"....like it implied it was better than what came before.

I suspect these genre names are just outcomes of marketing.
 
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Amazing Deejay

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Jul 18, 2011
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Monty said:
Might as well close this thread now! i have shown that Techno/Electro/Hip Hop has nothing to do with House.
If you want to know more about Hardcore/Jungle/Drum & Bass just ask!
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True that Hip Hop & Jungle/D&B I would say doesn't have THAT MUCH to do with House. Techno certainly has everything to do with it...at least the dance floor friendly stuff.

I do want to know more about what in the UK they refered to as "Hardcore". Like the time of the Tom & Jerry records, was this 1992. Roast & AWOL for example...I have live recordings of early Mickey Finn, Kenny Ken, Randall (Who I believe is the best D&B DJ of that era)...the recordings were from 1993-1994 ish. They had a ton of huge records like Dark Stranger, "The Painted Man He Haunts My Dreams etc..., The Ray Keith track Dubplate... the stuff sounded extremely dark. Goldie's Terminator record and the early Reinforced stuff, is this what was refered to as "Hadcore".

There's a funny video of Carl Cox here playing terrible sounding records:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlKACF_1oKQ]Carl Cox Live @ Amnesia House "The Book of Love" - 27 June, 1992 - YouTube[/ame]

Is this what promoters like AWOL and ROAST were doing BEFORE Jungle? What is this stuff Cox was playing?

Then what didn't make sense is, many years later, in the Techno Drome at Milton Keynes Sanctuary for Helter Skelter, punters would refer to that as HARDCORE.

Makes no sense. I thought that was ALL Gabba or Gabber whatever...not Hardcore. I thought hardcore was done. Explain please?
 
A

Amazing Deejay

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nupski said:
not much to add here, i think what siman said was fairly accurate, i deffo agree with him about the difference between progressive and trance, which are very different genres for me.

one thing i would say is that i think sasha started to play prog tunes in his sets in the second half of 92, not sure but i believe that renaissance first started up around that time. diggers was an early ressie at renaissance so i would say late 92, both for the rise in popularity of progressive house and also when digweed first started making a name for himself. i certainly have a few 92 tunes that i regard as prog, although as siman said i don't think it existed as a genre at that point ;)

hope that helps m8 :thumbsup:
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Thanks Nupski. That's what I thought. 1993 was when a lot more vinyl was coming out with those sounds.
 
A

Amazing Deejay

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Jul 18, 2011
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Art Awreet said:
Interesting to hear that the hip-house sound is coming back at the expense of trance. Always liked the hip-house sound and it was a shame it kind of died off in the very early 90's. Never liked the post 1992 trance or techno sounds - far too boring and serious for me. Same could be said about post 1992 hardcore/Jungle which got too fast
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Yes, the new generation is seeing a bit of a shift. They like the slower tempo of older House. Trance to tell you the truth, was probably fading since 2008ish. Most of the Progressive & Trance DJs who dominated the large clubs are kind of being set aside for a new generation of DJs who are playing the Electro House & Pop House sound. These styles sometimes have rappers over them, but they don't really resemble the 80's Hip House exactly, but I would still call it Hip House.

DJs like Paul Van Dyk who are fading in some ways have voiced their opinions on not liking the mix of Hip Hop over dance. What we may be actually seeing is a reduction in bookings for PVD (and his resultant frustration of the masses liking change) and the crowds or promoters not desiring the same old 'Trance sound' that was being fed to North Americans since the early 2000's. The largest promoters in the world have almost STOPPED booking Trance DJs, or Trance DJs have adapted their style, or now call it Progressive Trance (the dumbest term I've ever heard), in attempts to re-brand themselves once again.

Trance will never go away though. It's just in a slight down period. Before you know it a string of new producers will come along, but the days of the same old European DJs of the past claiming all the venues in North America, I personally see as coming to an abrupt end within the next 2 years.

What we are likely to see is a strong American influence in dance music for the next 10 years. This is my prediction. In the past it has been the other way around.

I predict times are a changing and nobody will be able to stop it, because afterall, the punters are the ones who control the scene, just like we (young punters of the 90's generation) decided if Oakenfold lived or died! :p
 
M

Monty

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Apr 8, 2006
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Amazing Deejay said:
True that Hip Hop & Jungle/D&B I would say doesn't have THAT MUCH to do with House. Techno certainly has everything to do with it...at least the dance floor friendly stuff.

I do want to know more about what in the UK they refered to as "Hardcore". Like the time of the Tom & Jerry records, was this 1992. Roast & AWOL for example...I have live recordings of early Mickey Finn, Kenny Ken, Randall (Who I believe is the best D&B DJ of that era)...the recordings were from 1993-1994 ish. They had a ton of huge records like Dark Stranger, "The Painted Man He Haunts My Dreams etc..., The Ray Keith track Dubplate... the stuff sounded extremely dark. Goldie's Terminator record and the early Reinforced stuff, is this what was refered to as "Hadcore".

There's a funny video of Carl Cox here playing terrible sounding records:

Carl Cox Live @ Amnesia House "The Book of Love" - 27 June, 1992 - YouTube

Is this what promoters like AWOL and ROAST were doing BEFORE Jungle? What is this stuff Cox was playing?

Then what didn't make sense is, many years later, in the Techno Drome at Milton Keynes Sanctuary for Helter Skelter, punters would refer to that as HARDCORE.

Makes no sense. I thought that was ALL Gabba or Gabber whatever...not Hardcore. I thought hardcore was done. Explain please?
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Them terrible sounding records he is playing is UK Hardcore Techno (breakbeat) 1990-1993 era. Here is 3 off them.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyyMrRORcDg]Smooth But Hazzardous - Made You Dance - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diK6rCWtzkE]Dance Conspiracy - Dub War - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90W4BOupoVM]Justice & Mercy - Soothe My Soul (Original) - YouTube[/ame]

Some more Hardcore:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc3L6VEsMZo]Manic (Unbelievable) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-CPWROQ2s]G DOUBLE E - B-LINE FROM HELL.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdll9K8iK-k]Timebase - Unity - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rl70Yc3NLM]NRG - Its Ruff - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A729O1UWzSI]Sub Bass - Disintegrate (HD) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIc-OCAajWQ]nitrous illusions - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7k2jVzVoYQ]After dark - Raw - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAerkmXlvH0"]BREAK THE LIMITS " E-Yeah " 1991 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eVH73rOCIg]DILEMMA - erase your mind - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uw_CnprOVc]Dilemma - The Intral - YouTube[/ame]

Don't worry about not understanding Hardcore a lot off people don't!
 
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M

Monty

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Apr 8, 2006
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqUidIQ9j8w"]Black Sabbath - Story of 'Black Sabbath' riff - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHPfSUcXKA"]KEMICAL KIDS - Grim EP - Untitled - B1 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBpD2BdKNS8"]Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath (Live At Paris) - YouTube[/ame]

Bring Ya Back Down!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O63COyZlTyU"]Black Sabbath - Planet Caravan [HQ] - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuqVogBiYSU"]Black Sabbath Solitude - YouTube[/ame]

Sounds like ambient does'nt it! & coming from a Heavy Metal Hard Rock Band (1970) The Innovators Of Metal! Black Sabbath! oops! what have i done now!
 
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